Saturday, May 31, 2008

Duke/NCCU: Can't We All Just Get Along


It’s been a while since I’ve posted a blog. It’s not because there’s nothing to write about. I’m distressed that the Durham City Manager has recommended a budget that will end funding of the African American Dance Ensemble, cut $78,000 from the Hayti Heritage Center and reduce funding of the Walltown Children’s Theatre. I have some harsh words related to that, but I will pause long enough to get a feel for what the heck is behind the mess.
There’s all this drama related to Hillary and Barack that is worth addressing. I’m still not over Hillary evoking the memory of Bobby Kennedy’s assignation to validate her right to stay in the hunt. Sorry Hillary, the big talk among many black people is the fear that Barack will be killed if he wins the election. How stupid can you get?
I could have written about Rev. Michael Pfleger mocking Hillary Clinton at Obama’s Church. There’s so much to write about, but I stepped back long enough to allow my readers to respond to my last post-an attack of a column written by Kristen Butler in the Chronicle, Duke University’s student newspaper.
I’m amused by the responses to that blog. Before reacting, I wanted to give my critics more time to speak. To give them a chance to let us know how they feel before bringing to their attention that many of the assumptions they made related to what I wrote, or what they felt I wrote, have more to do with their own suppositions and less to do with my own position on the subject.
What this all teaches us, sadly, is that America isn’t ready for a real discussion about race. It’s difficult for white people to hear a person state the obvious-that being white concedes a level of privilege denied those who are black. It is implicit in being white, like it or not, that you are innocent until proven guilty. That you deserve another chance, and that any effort to minimize your right as a white person provides you the right to destroy those who came against you.
Some of my readers don’t get that. Butler’s column was racist at its core. Why? Because Butler made assumptions about an institution that is loving and forgiving enough to give a person like Crystal Mangum a second chance. What Mangum did was wrong. Does that mean that we, as a society, should take from her the right to make amends? Should we punish her for the rest of her life, while rewarding others for their involvement in all that happened?
Mistakes were made by all involved. Mangum made a mistake. Members of the lacrosse team made mistakes as well. My hope is that all of the wrongs be exposed-not just a few. The comments made at the party are offensive. Does it serve us well, as a society, to forget those words? Do you remember them, or have we discounted them completely after proving that the other claims were false.
We can’t do that. Black people are hurt by words like “thank your grandfather for picking the cotton for this shirt.” We can’t forget the email message that was sent out by a member of the team afterwards indicating their desire to hire a black stripper for the purpose of abusing her. We can’t forget the broomstick reference.
What happens in this conversation is the negation of it all based on the severe nature of the lie told by Mangum. There is no doubt that these young men have been hurt. Yes, they deserve an apology, but so do we. Who is we-the black residents of Durham who are hurting as a result of the way Duke students, protectors of the integrity of members of the team, and all the mad people who want heads on silver platters, have failed to consider the deeper issue at hand.
Race is hard to talk about. It is harder when people refuse to understand how their words and actions rekindle old thoughts. Race relations in Durham, NC have taken a major hit over all of this. Butler hasn’t helped by attacking NCCU. Those who have responded to my blog need to step back long enough to see how their words, and their feelings around this issue, is hindering are ability to move forward.
The assumption of privilege is an issue. That’s what Rev. Michael Pfleger meant when he spoke at Barack Obama’s church. Although it may be hard for white people to hear it, it is something assumed by black people. What is difficult for many to contemplate is why we feel this way. The bottom line is you can’t understand how it feels to be black until you have walked in those shoes. The reverse is also true. You can’t understand what it means to be white until you walked in those shoes.
Get this white people. I have been stopped on numerous occasions for driving while black. I have been stopped for walking in my own neighborhood. I have been followed by sales clerks to assure I won’t steal their precious goods. I have been denied work because I’m black. I’ve dealt with being told one thing over the phone and another when I show up due to the assumption made by the person on the other end of the phone-that I must be white. I have received a lower grade than white students despite doing better work. How do I know this? Because they have told me so.
This is the burden we carry as black people. The feeling that whites get more, while we get less, is a load to disprove. My readers say get over it. Many have concluded that blacks are cry babies. We need to pull our heads out of the old rhetoric and accept that all white people love black people, and that America is over its legacy of racism. If that was all true, we would not be having this conversation.
How do we make America a better place? Why not celebrate that Crystal Mangum graduated from NCCU. Shouldn’t we all be happy that she is working to change her life? Why bring up Solomon Burnette’s past troubles with the law? Why not celebrate that he found his way, got a degree and is taking classes at Duke. It’s called being reformed. Why can’t we celebrate that?
Would it be different if Mangum and Burnete had committed crimes were the victims were students at NCCU? Would it be easier for people to celebrate the commitment to change if white people hadn’t been impacted by their former ways? Open your eyes people. Race is at the heart of this discussion, and an apology is in order. For all who have failed to comprehend how the way we respond hinders our progress-shame on you.
With all of that being said, get this. Not all students at Duke are privileged. Not all students are racist. What we have here are groups of hurting people. The problem is no one will pull back from their own pain long enough to listen to those on the other side.
Wake up. We have to learn to love one another.

25 comments:

  1. Carl (and many others on both sides), slow down and think this through. If you're going to argue, using the purist form of the word, then be logical and stop projecting your own fears/emotions on to the words of others.

    Kristin Butler's main point seemed to be "Should a university graduate a student who has a criminal record?" Carl effectively answered that point, as have many other universities that graduated known felons. After all, comitting a crime does not mean that redemption should not be possible in the future. Similarly, graduation from a "prestigious" university does not portend an ethical or crime free life in the future. So, Ms. Butler's assumption that a reputable university would not graduate a known felon is effectively refuted.

    The main concern with many writer's thoughts center on three areas:
    1. Butler's words were arrogant.
    2. Buttler is a typical example of a white Duke student.
    3. Butler's opinion is typical of all whites.

    Let's examine these in order.

    BUTLER'S ARROGANCE - Yes, I agree her words reflected a cloistered, immature mind. Neither a Duke nor NCCU degree "guarantees character" or separates "thugs and liars" from their student majorities. So, her integrity arrogance has no foundation.

    On the other hand, Carl and some other writers would have us believe that a NCCU degree carries the same academic weight as a Duke degree. It doesn't, as any professional school admissions office will admit. It's easier to gain admittance to NCCU and the intellectual competition level there is not on par with Duke. That does not mean that we should take a logical mistep and think that a number of NCCU students couldn't make it at Duke - they could. It also doesn't imply that a number of students at NCCU won't go on to outstanding academic and professional achievement - they will. And students of both universities will be comprised of those who work hard and those who don't. So,if Butler's opinion reflects an academic arrogance, she may be correct, even while being wrong in her integrity arrogance. And none of this ignores the important role HBC's have played in our culture.

    BUTLER IS A TYPICAL WHITE DUKE STUDENT - We have no way of knowing her economic, social, or academic status, so it's unfair to assume her views reflect all Duke students. Putting aside her poorly defensible integrity arrogance, I would bet her academic arrogance is also held by African-American, Asian, and other minority students at Duke. They worked hard to get there and view their presence at Duke as an accomplishment.

    BUTLER'S OPINIONS ARE TYPICAL OF ALL WHITES - Perhaps they're more typical of African-American FEARS of what whites think. And, in many cases, those fears are real based on what blacks have personally endured, both in the past and in the present. To make Butler's comments and implications a lightning rod for all past ills, however, is perhaps a step too far. She represents herself and her opinions reflect on only her, just as Mangum and Burnette only reflect on themselves. I hope that all three of them are better contributors to society in the future.

    Carl, when the black community tells you of their prejudices against the white and your experience tells you otherwise, then say that without apology. Similarly, when white readers of this blog encounter unjustified remarks about the black community, they must also speak out. That's how discourse occurs in a civilized world. It's the only way we can eventually get beyond illogical opinions that we assume others have.

    And that's my real beef with your Butler column and many of the replies it received. Butler was wrong, naive, and socially inexperienced. She is not the banner carrier for all whites nor is she the perpetrator of all of white America's past ills. That said, she sure did get under our collective thin skin.

    I did like the way you ended the current column, however. We have to listen to each other in order to learn to love one another. But let's make sure we are actually listening, rather than making assumptions about what the other "really means."

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  2. Carl you are placing a different set of rules on white people than black people. Are we equal or do you, like a large section of the most vocal in the black community, have one set of societal rules for blacks than white?

    Privilege just by being white: Tell that to the blue collar whites that I grew up with. Tell that to the white folks living in a trailer park.

    Ready for race discussion: Do most blacks really want to have a truthful discussion on race relations? I would say Cosby and the likes do but you see where his truth telling got him. Let a white person speak the truth like Cosby and see what happens. Most blacks cannot handle the truth, especially if it comes from a white person. Check back with me on this one in a generation or two.

    Mangum deserves another chance: The problem with your statement is Mangum has not been held accountable, told the truth or apologized. Unlike the boys in the situation she has done nothing to right the wrong that she created. I still find it funny how you can equate name calling with filing a false police report that made the bigots on the far left and the racist black leadership shine for all to see, destroyed the creditability of questionable rape victims, cost Durham tax payers unheard of amounts of money and nearly destroyed 3 innocent men’s lives.

    All made mistakes: Underage drinking and name calling in retaliation to being called a name. Get off your moral high ground and back to reality. Underage drinking will never end and you know the saying….sticks and stones will etc. Take a look at the situation a large amount of Durham’s black youth face and tell me if you are more concerned about name calling than a chance of a young 10 year old being shot while innocently playing outside.

    Black people are hurt by words: There you go with the one set of rules for blacks etc. If you followed the case from reliable sources other than the now discredited NCNAACP you would realize that the person that said the cotton shirt remark was replying to Kim after being named called referencing his white dick. Do you think a group of black gangsters would have just name called if they had been ripped off of $800.00 and called names? Lucky for these girls they had men of refrain than some hot heads. Selective indignation due to color is all I can say. You have a nation, a DA and almost an entire community ready to lynch these young men and all you care about is some name calling. Grow up or actually ask yourself why you are so vested in this side issue. The color is al can conclude.

    Email message: I could be wrong but I do not remember color being referenced in the email. Maybe you should read other sources besides the biased NCNAACP. The reference of the email was from a cult classic movie that is taught in couple of classes at Duke. And it was meant as a joke. Remember early in the hoax people were saying the boys hired black strippers? How racist. But we all found out they requested white strippers. Then some said that was racist. Isn’t funny how people with an agenda can turn any scenario around to fit their world view? If you left color out of this scenario, the entire hoax, people would wonder if some of you folks were sane.

    Butler has not helped by attacking NCCU: Well thinks god someone had the balls, sorry ladies, to speak the truth. Yes and the actions by the blacks in Durham really helped relations. It just proved to some blinded people that color is all that matters to some in the black community. Do you think for one minute the NCCU forum would have been held if a group of black men were accused of raping a white prostitute? It may have occurred but it definitely would not have been in support of the prostitute. You see, there were white people, no matter how ignorant and misdirected they were, just as willing to lynch these young men.

    Yes race relations have taken a hit. But I put all that blame on the NCNAACP, black panthers, people at the NCCU lynch forum, left wing nut cases and a large segment of the black community that could not see the evidence due to their racism.

    Blacks deserve an apology: What the hell for Carl? For being an ignorant participant due to your delusions based on color? What based on your stereotyping of Duke White males? The evidence was obvious to anyone that was not blinded by their bigotry. No the black community, NCCU and NCNAACP owe Duke, Durham and the LAX players an apology. Because if Nifong was not so sure he could rile the black community based on color we would not be having this conversation.

    Blacks being stopped by police: Could this have anything to do with the state of affairs in the black community?

    No Carl based on your words you are not ready for a truthful race relation talk. If you and people like you would just shut the hell up about color this color that you would be amazed at how much that would move race relations along. You would be amazed at how little color matters to the majority of white people. Years ago yes it matter. But today I fell it is the black community that cannot let go of the past. It was not pretty, I understand. But is dwelling on the past helping the black community? Shouldn’t what is going to help progress the community be front and center?

    I grew very poor with no father and the last thing I cared about was how in the hell did I get here. I didn’t like it but I did not have the luxury to blame someone else. No I realized that where I am as a child does not determine where I will be as an adult.



    Trinity Rez

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  3. Wow. Race sparks a lot of heat.

    I'm exhausted on the aforementioned subjects, but here is my (highly condensed) response (as if it mattered, but it's a part of the conversation nonetheless):

    What Mangum did is blatantly wrong on so many regards. But I want to vomit at hearing those lacross players described as "innocent". I am sorry, but if anyone wants a truthful conversation, *they* need to wake up to the truth that though they may not be rapists, these boys are also anything but innocent. Don't say she almost ruined their lives... THEY almost ruined their lives. You reap what you sew, and their arrogance and victim-act since has made me ill.

    No, NCCU is not Duke. Regardless, NCCU and the black community do not own Duke an apology. Please. That's arrogant to suggest. Mangum herself owes an apology, as well as Nifong. They are to blame for the amount of money and time wasted, not "the black community".

    White people are privileged in ways that others are not. Pointblank, and I again am sickened by anyone denying this. It took me a lot of years and a lot of effort to see it, but it's true. I have, in my life, seen a few (a rare few) incidences in which case being black would have tremendously benefitted a friend or myself, and still yet, I know I don't have to worry about being told "you were only hired to fill a quota" or asked "don't you feel badly that you got to take the students spot of a better qualified person just because you are black?" (yes, I've heard black friends asked that, and at a nice college where people should be more educated). And I have no idea to what full extent my skin benefits me because it is easy for me to overlook the many ways I benefit from my skin. And I even grew up in the poorside of town, my cousins in a trailer park, me in a tiny old rotting country neighborhood. And I benefit over most the black people I know on a daily basis in seemingly unimportant ways. The key word in the previous sentence is seemingly.

    Also, I *am* more afraid of the damage ignorance and words will do to us than of a child being shot when playing in their own yard. Durham is not the dangerous place it is portrayed to be by most media.

    No one deserves to be pulled over because of their skin color, no matter what the situation in "their community". And I've seen it happen repeatedly.

    My truth is, I am always so curious to talk with African-Americans I know about their own experiences and insights because of the value and relevance to know it, but am often afraid to ask, other than to two of my girlfriends of color. Not because black people scare me, but because... well, I don't know why. I know I am ignorant to the truth in many regards and fear that shining through, maybe. I fear too much, perhaps.

    What is happening is not ok, and racism exists rampantly, and I applaud you Carl for being willing to be judged as too emotion and "not ready" for truth and real conversation. Further showing your own reality of being more harshly critiqued... simply because you are black, and therefore must simply be supporting "your own". What crap that racism is denied and attacks are launched instead of questions being asked.

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  4. ps, it may seem like it, but I'm not simply calling out the previous commentors... I'm calling out the media and most of the community who has participated in the lacrosse "conversation" (or any other race conversations). The issue is far bigger than those of us on this blog, no doubt.

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  5. For those who are interested in the issues raised by the post, a useful article to read is "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack," a abridged version of a longer article by Peggy McIntosh. It can be found on the Web. In it, Professor McIntosh, who is white, lists the privileges her race silently confers on her.

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  6. Much to the dismay and chagrin of many, Durham and the black community, specifically, showed themselves to be grand students and followers of the David Duke and Ku Klux Klan doctrine.

    The entire nation was treated to the embarrassing and bigoted show.

    People from NCCU and other residents were screaming into microphones and they welcomed the New Black Panthers into town as they threatened the lives of three innocent men.

    It was a disgusting orgy.

    There are no excuses for what was allowed to take place in Durham in the Spring of 2006.

    Let's dismiss with the antimacassar niceties which either make a joke of the subject of right and wrong, or they blatantly excuse bold and open racism which is allowed to go unchallenged.

    Observers rightly question what kind of an "education" can be had at NCCU with such low standards allowed for its students.

    This is the only place you will get the facts of this case. Not silly emotional rhetoric.

    Most of us live by the rule of law and not by some third-world mob rule.

    One only needs to revisit the website of the NC NAACP which promoted libelous, outrageous, and inciteful lies--and perhaps still does--to witness this loony mindset.

    Moreover, recall the words and deeds of the obese Rev. Barber to see just how obsolete and out-of-touch these career "race hounds" are.

    It's a maddening parade until the next "event" in the phony, yet lucrative, "race business".

    Sad, that.

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  7. "Why bring up Solomon Burnette’s past troubles with the law? Why not celebrate that he found his way....."

    Ha!

    No adult who has "found his way" could have written the words he wrote.

    Words of violent revenge against those accused before any evidence of guilt.

    We must also remember the atrocious Chan Hall. An NCCU campus "leader" back when the Duke Lacrosse Hoax was being designed.

    There is really nothing more horrendous than viewing career race hounds develop into the characters they supposedly decry.

    Normal and decent people in society would gladly forget about these mental cases if they would refrain from plowing onto every public stage to parade like clowns.

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  8. I'll just be curious to see if Mangum, now with a degree, takes on another line of work besides "dancing."

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  9. BTW : Debrah- Yes, the Chan Hall statement pretty much sums up what NCCU was, and probably still is, all about.

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  10. And Pauldude: I wonder if that "Professor" Mc goes into Asian privilege at all. I mean, there HAS to be a reason why Indians and Japanese are doing so well in the U.S., better than Caucasians, from the medical field to spelling bees, right? It can't just be their own hard work and behavior, it must be that privilege silently bestowed upon them.

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  11. Kristin Butler's main point seemed to be "Should a university graduate a student who has a criminal record?"

    Not correct. Her point was that NCCU has a code of conduct that was pretty clearly not enforced in the case of CGM. The second point was that not enforcing that code of conduct cheapens the degrees of graduates who lived within that code of conduct.

    I've asked elsewhere and I'll ask it here. If what CGM did is not enough to get you tossed from NCCU under the code of conduct, what would you have to do to get tossed? Has anyone actually ever been tossed from NCCU under the code of conduct? Why have a code of conduct in the first place if all you're going to do is wink at it?

    p.s. With regard to so-called "white privilege" I have some Vietnamese friends I want to introduce you to. They arrived here about 30 years ago with literally nothing but the shirts on their backs and the barest understanding of English. They met with their share of bigotry and hatred. They made no excuses and said to hell with this victim crap. One generation later they are highly successful. Were they the beneficiaries of some kind of "yellow privilege"? Then I have some Korean friends you could meet. I know a crowd of successful Serbians. And a few Iranians making the most of the opportunities this country has to offer. Then you could meet a Sudanese friend of mine. His name is Elmostafa. He has his own successful business. Mike Nifong tried to ruin him. Elmostafa's still here. Nifong is all gone.

    Now go back and watch NCCU students in action

    North Carolina Central University Forum. Did those NCCU students think the Duke students weren't listening?

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  12. Locomotive Breath (and others) assert that NCCU's code of conduct is worthless since Mangum wasn't expelled for her unfounded accusations.

    Have the Duke ballplayers convicted of DWI and other students convicted of a variety of drug offenses been expelled from school?

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  13. I in no way condone lies thrown from one side or another. Those young men made a mistake that turned into a bizarre and fiery attack that they did not deserve. Along with that, however, means that each party must take full accountability of their actions. Their actions, while in no case equal rape, also in no case ever would constitute innocent little angels. Both sides attacked in inappropriate ways, both sides were incredibly victimized by the lies and hatred spewed by the "opposition", and sadly, I'm not referring to Mangum or the lacrosse players by "both sides"... I mean the communities and supporters of these two parties.

    Rape victims do not ask for what happens to them.

    These lacrosse players did not ask for what happened to them.

    Still yet, their actions don't remotely evoke my deep sympathies. Had they been having a party, a random female friend dropped by, and such allegations been made, I would deeply deeply feel for them.

    Hiring a stripper, as legal and fine and common as it may be, and then yelling and texting the hateful things they did afterward ~ before any allegations were made... then their smug faces throughout the drama... at no point did they show their own accountability and mistakes of that night, just like Mangum has never apologized. Therefore, all parties fare equally in my book.

    I am not down with the "woe is me, I've been so wronged" on either side of this fence.

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  14. For example (I'm not putting in names):

    ATO RESPONDS TO RECENT ARREST OF BROTHER

    4/10/07

    Last week, allegations were brought against a member of our fraternity, junior XXXX XXXXXX, and he was subsequently suspended by the University.


    [snip]

    The case was a phony. Just like the case of another Duke student in Durham's absurd SWAT team 'drug sting" perpetrated against a Duke student in April 08. At least the second time Duke figured it out and didn't suspend the student.

    In case you forgot, the Duke administration took the following actions against the lacrosse team as a result of CGM's false accusation:

    1) season cancelled
    2) coach fired after 16 years of exemplary service
    3) lacrosse player suspended and immediately forced to leave campus over an email that the administration had every reason to know was not a threat
    4) two additional players suspended as a result of being arrested even though by that point Duke knew the DNA did not match and both students had alibis backed up by physical evidence.

    There are several more examples I could cite of Duke enforcing its code. No matter how badly.

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  15. TO "locomotive breath"--

    Don't you get it yet?

    One shining truth that came out of this Hoax is that all those things you listed---and more---that resulted from Mangum's deliberate lies and life of prostitution and grifting....as she was going to "get some money from some white boys".......

    .......give the race-mongers in Durham great pleasure.

    They feel that they "stuck it to some white people".

    Moreover, many probably think Mangum is their hero---a "sista friend" who got a pound of flesh.

    It's a sick mentality.

    Wonder how they reconcile the fact that Barack Obama---who, btw, I am supporting---was one of few politicians who called for a civil rights investigation into the Lacrosse Hoax?

    At first, they didn't think he was "black enough".

    LOL!!!

    LOL!!!

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  16. What I would like to know, if Crystal Gail Magnum is not mentally fit to stand trial for lying to the police, how is she mentally fit to graduate from college?

    And bringing up the issue of race really denies the bigger issue, that of discrimination based on socio-economic status. But that will never happen. Because if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton fight based on socio-economic status and not race, that means they would have to recognize a segment of the population that is white; that of poor whites.

    Remember, poor whites on the south were all but slaves. They were sharecroppers and bound in an endless cycle of debt owed to plantation owners.

    Remember, literacy laws and poll taxes were not only to prevent Blacks from voting, but also to prevent poor Whites from voting...

    We need to solve the rifts because of socio-economic status and not race.

    You cannot convince me or anyone else that the group of people who are still willing to throw the lacrosse players under the bus would be defending them tooth and nail if the accuser was white and the accused were black and the same situation happened.

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  17. I attend NCCU, and I guess I'm a privileged white male. I earn over $90,000/year. Not sure if that's considered a good salary these days, but I have no complaints with the way this society has treated me.

    Anyways, my corporate employer told me that math-based technical degrees will be required to reach higher rungs in the org structure, so I started looking at places to get that education. I discovered that it would be very difficult to enroll in the classes I needed at UNC or NC State as a part-time student. They seem to cater primarily to full-time students at the undergraduate levels.

    NCCU has treated me like a regular student, even though I'm going to school part-time. The education has been excellent so far. Class sizes are generally small, and all courses I have taken have been taught by actual professors, and not graduate students. Overall, the professors work hard to make sure that students understand the material before moving forward. This is consistent with the university's mission to uplift students coming from worse educational backgrounds, but it also creates a great small-class learning environment for all students, which you don't get at many other more prominent state universities. And I made sure to check whether UNC and NC State would accept credits from NCCU when I move on to grad school. They will.

    As far as the whole Duke Lacrosse thing goes, I'm just not that interested in it. I don't have strong opinions one way or the other, and at this point it seems like many people are using it as a vehicle to advance personal agendas.

    I wrote this response, because as I read the comments, it seemed like many people had very warped impressions of NCCU. The school fills important educational needs for the entire community, and the achievements of it's graduates prove the value of the education. I'm sure you all know that our governor did graduate from the place.

    Also, you can learn more about the university by listening to the chancellor speak on this taped radio broadcast:

    http://wunc.org/tsot/archive/sot0414a08.mp3/view

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  18. ".....and at this point it seems like many people are using it as a vehicle to advance personal agendas."

    Prick up your ears.

    Open your eyes.

    Read.

    Go back and put some effort into learning the intricacies of this outrageous and deliberate travesty of justice before you comment.....

    .......even if you're "just not that interested in it".

    This Hoax got its start because of a maddening desire of many declasse individuals to promote their personal agendas.

    They are now engaged in a maddening effort to try to rewrite their own history and their own feverish participation in this Hoax.

    Try Logic 101 next semester.



    "I'm sure you all know that our governor did graduate from the place."

    Yeah, and Mickey "Email" Easley might be one of the most perfect morons who has ever been governor. He's a drip.


    "Also, you can learn more about the university by listening to the chancellor speak on this taped radio broadcast...."

    First, I'd like to hear the chancellor explain to the taxpayers how Mangum "earned" her degree. I'd also like to hear him explain to any normal person why anyone should think the school has any standards at all.

    You can't relax standards to this level and hope to be respected.

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  19. Debrah - It's puzzling to me why you responded to my comment with so much hostility. When I say that I believe people are using the Duke Lacrosse case to advance personal agendas, I'm referring to people all over the political spectrum.

    I think that reforming the judicial system so that innocent people don't get harmed by it is a noble cause; however, it doesn't seem like you are attacking all instances of injustice with the same energy. That Eric Daniels kid was screwed-over by Durham's DA office, and certainly seems to be innocent, but I just don't sense the same outrage for that injustice. And he's actually been serving jail time.

    It's this type of fundamental inconsistency that causes me to be disinterested in these arguments to fight for justice. But let me also say that I found much of the discourse about race and violence towards women early in the Duke Lacrosse investigation to be equally inconsistent. The noble work with respect to all these causes occurs in the trenches, not the spotlight. What we saw was a silly media show.

    In the end, if you want to use your analytical energies to unearth all of the scandalous details about this case, I think that's perfectly fine.

    I'm just here to say that a quality education can be obtained at NCCU. You can be upset about an honor code decision, but there is no reason to insult me, and the other hard-working students at the school. Are none of us worthy of your respect? Are we all worthless in your eyes?

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  20. This blog...

    Wow, the near-sightedness is frightning. I just read a comment from SEPTEMBER 7, 2007 in which someone asks how can those indicted be declared innocent without the case going to court?

    After the MYRIAD of evidence to show these boys are innocent against NO EVIDENCE that a crime may occur, someone has the audacity to make that statement.

    And you cannot understand why the city is being sued? I love how Durham gave their seal of approval by electing these idiots and then says "Not me, I am not paying." You had not one, but TWO opportunities to give this joker Nifong the puch out the door. The second time, it was already made clear that most likely a crime did not occur and Nifong was totally unquaified, yet he won reelection.

    And then three young men's civil rights were clearly violated and the federal government says no when a request was made to help the state investigate? Incredible! I love how the Black community is so two-faced on how hypocritical they are in this case and in response to Jena.

    And may I remind you, you rail against the three indicted players (one of which was indicted before police could even place him at the party), yet no one codemns but in fact hails Nifong as a hero? A man who so egregiously misused his office and in fact used the race of the false accuser as means to win an election. It amazes me how you rail how "the white man keeps blacks down" and then celebrate Nifong when in fact, that is EXACTLY what Nifong did.

    I also enjoy this talk of everyone being equal in the eyes of the lord but what you actually fight for seems to look like you are fighting to be placed ABOVE your white counterparts. Like I said, the real problems are socio-economic and not raced based. So if you are truly fighting for equality, the fight should be for the poor (of all races), not that of Blacks.

    How can you honestly be taken seriously when the White community see such double standards in the was the Black community reacted to Jena to how they reacted to Duke. NO ONE spoke out when the NBP's not only threatened Colin Finerty, but also where then LET IN THE COURTROOM.

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  21. There is so much that one can say after reading the various postings but I will limit myself to a few observations.
    1. so, it was ok for Mangum abd Roberts to make racist comments -either they were not considered racist comments or they should be given a pass because they are Black (one set of rules for Blacks another for Whites - shades of Jum Crow?)
    2. whether one likes it or not, hiring strippers, while morally objecionable to some (count me in that group) is not against the law - neither is it against the law for someone to work as a stripper (again, that would not be a profession or a job to work one's way through college that I would want my own daughter to pursue
    3. given that hiring strippers is legal, why should the young men who were accused of rape be considered responsible for what happened to them? Does a stripper have the right to make accusations because she is unhappy with the conditions under which she is asked to perfor? The bottom line is she could have said that the working environment was not a good one for her and walked away - not taking the money. This she did not do - instead, angry at the situation in which she found herself - performing for a group of college students who did not appreciate her or her compatriot's dancing/stripping abilities, she decided that she would game the system by accusing some of them of rape.
    4. while I cannot speak to what it is like to be black, just as there are blacks of all income levels and shades of skin color (I have read accounts and heard from those of color about the discrimination that exists in the African-American community based on skin color) so there are income levels of whites. What I do believe we have come to in the US is less a race issue than a class issue which accounts for much of the us vs them that exists within American society. I would not dispute the comments made by one commentator to this blog that he has recieved a fine education at NCSU and has had many demanding and caring professors. However, we all know that within the academic world, there is a pecking order (Ivies on top, local community colleges anchoring the bottom) which should have nothing to do with how well one has been trained for a profession but in fact has much to do with whether doors will be opened or not.

    I am only a third generation American. Both my parents were raised in one-parent, extremely poor homes. Both my parents worked hard, instilling in me and my siblings that life is hard but that if one is willing to work, be a person of integrity, set goals, and not perceive ourselves as victims but as agents of change we would achieve what we set out to do. All seven of us have - and those same values we have instilled in our own children. It has nothing at all to do with color. When those, both black and white and every color inbetween stop looking for a handout and blaming everyone else for their condition and instead set out to make their way (regarding obstacles not as a roadblock but as a challenge to be mastered) then this world will be a lot happier place. Personally, I think this is the most important message that an Obama candidacy and presidency could bring.

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  22. You say:

    I have received a lower grade than white students despite doing better work. How do I know this? Because they have told me so.

    I'm reminded of a scene from "White Men Can't Jump". In it, Woody Harrelson makes repeated tries to dunk the basketball. After one of his failed attempts, Wesley Snipes tells him, "You just barely missed!" ... He delivered that line while discreetly holding his hands more than a foot apart.

    That's what your white friends were doing for you: Being your friends.

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  24. Anonymous said...

    May 31, 2008 12:49 PM

    BUTLER'S ARROGANCE - Yes, I agree her words reflected a cloistered, immature mind. Neither a Duke nor NCCU degree "guarantees character" or separates "thugs and liars" from their student majorities. So, her integrity arrogance has no foundation.


    You don't get it. The team was punished before charge one was filed. Mr Kenney is still trying to make something out of nothing. The email about abusing strippers was a joke in poor taste taken directly from Duke's required reading. The team was punished for any little infraction. After the NCAG returned a report of no evidence and declared the complaining whitness to be a false accuser and a drug abuser, NCCU did nothing to punisher her. Her integrity arrogance still holds. Its not the students she is talking about its the school administration.

    I don't deny her the right to get a degree, but if you break the rules, you should pay the price. So far, the only people to pay the price have been the Duke 3.

    Mr Kenney

    You write very eloquently. However, you twist truths into lies. You talk about the "cotton shirt" remark and how it was so bad, however you forgot to say that the girls (Ms. Roberts) started it. She even admitted it on national tv. Sadly, until everybody starts dealing with ALL the FACTS, this will forever remain a black man/white man feud with no end.

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  25. The Duke partiers may have made a mistake depending on your view of stripping as entertainment.Ms Magnum committed a serious crime if as it does appear she falsely accused people of physical assault and rape.There is a world of difference between an activity you don't approve of and a felony. By the way,
    My neighbor's son was accepted at an Ivy League college with a 1320 SAT score, no sports, no extra-curricular activities, no charity work, and an B-plus GPA.His father is a banker and his mother is a Librarian. His mother is white but his father is Black. She bragged, we'll play the race card for college entrance. What is the point of that? These things do happen and I now know that my son needed much higher scores, which he got and a better resume, which he had. He had to be smarter and work harder than hers.I was really amazed but my neighbor wasn't. She's expecting a full scholarship for her daughter who has higher grades than her son. go figure

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